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China Idles 40% of Windpower Turbine Output Capacity

bloomberg,com -- China is idling as much as 40 percent of its wind-turbine factories following a surge in investment driven by the government’s renewable energy goals, the vice president of Shanghai Electric Group Corp. said.

Prices of turbines have tumbled more than 30 percent from 2004 levels in the world’s third-biggest windpower market by generating capacity because there are “too many” plants, Lu Yachen said in an interview in Beijing today.

China aims to increase its capacity to produce power from the wind fivefold by 2020, spurring investment in turbine factories. Zhang Guobao, who helms the National Energy Administration, said in September without giving figures that there was a surplus of such plants.

“The overcapacity in manufacturing is caused by slower growth in wind-farm constru

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Submitted Mar 11, 2010 By: teafortwo

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Bonanza Champion Author Boston Posts:6,007 Points:1,538,015 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 5:59:58 AM Ignore Bonanza Report Abuse Good for them. Maybe it will mean they need less oil.
gasokie Veteran Author Oklahoma Posts:481 Points:546,785 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 11:02:17 AM Ignore gasokie Report Abuse Wind power electricity, like hydrogen for cars, costs more to produce per watt...much much more....than any other source of power except perhaps solar. The life span of one of these overpriced wind generators is 10 years We'll have to look at the ugly things for ever, as we cross America. Its a money pit making a lot of money for people who are vested in...uh...well. Wind power. Wonder how much it will cost us to rid the landscape of the ugly things 30 years from now? No matter what kind of smart grid you build to bring wind power on line, the underlying fact is that they are and shall be....impractical.
MUSTANGSRUS Champion Author Ontario Posts:4,539 Points:962,295 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 10:53:10 AM Ignore MUSTANGSRUS Report Abuse The transportation grid needs to be updated - and quickly - before it makes much sense in putting up new turbines. That is the problem with many of the wind farms today. The windy areas are too far from the population centres in most cases. When new power grids are proposed, the greenies come out from behind every tree, rock and bush to protest the erection of new lines. Near where I live, there is a real war going on between the greenies about a new line. It would not only transport green produced electricity, but power from a nearby nuclear plant. Hey people, you can't have everything you want. If you don't like new lines, get off the grid and go back 100 years in time and see how you like living that way. Personally, I like to see lights when I push a switch, and a furnace that keeps me warm without having to chop the wood, and an air conditioner when summer heat arrives, and I would hate to go back to a wash board to get my clothes clean.
fordmexico Champion Author Michigan Posts:1,952 Points:172,825 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 10:07:08 AM Ignore fordmexico Report Abuse I agree with Cuzilla, "The problem is probably due to lack of investment in infrastructure. Transmission lines, storage capacity, switch gear, transformers, etc. are no small order. It's a big problem here also." A recent article posted here described a similar problem with Texas wind farms. No matter where or how our power is being generated, we need to improve, modernize and expand our grid to accommodate our future requirements.
packards42 Champion Author Washington Posts:1,461 Points:267,550 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 10:06:53 AM Ignore packards42 Report Abuse 14.1 gigawatt of wind turbines just last year, that huge, probably more than all new power plants in the USA for the year
packards42 Champion Author Washington Posts:1,461 Points:267,550 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 10:02:17 AM Ignore packards42 Report Abuse 78 wind turbine manufacturers, why aren't the prices cheaper here in the USA.
gasman50 Champion Author Portland Posts:3,729 Points:1,398,065 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:52:17 AM Ignore gasman50 Report Abuse Imagine this in a controled economy with Government ownership....what will happen here?
Buck_on_Bass Champion Author Tennessee Posts:2,609 Points:563,715 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:50:34 AM Ignore Buck_on_Bass Report Abuse The infrastructure in the US and in China was not created with adding wind turbines as part of the plan. The transmissions systems developed over decades with system planning being out one to two decades. And system planning included knowing in the areas within the system where the new generation would be located. Now a new technology comes along and is rapidly advanced but the transmission system is not suitable for the necessary generations siting for the new technology. Decades may be need to add the new transmission facilities. And don't forget the changes in the electric power industry where vertical integration is disappearing. If the transmissions line owners cannot make a reasonable profit, don't look for them to invest in new lines. It is a difficult market to work in.
nstrdnvstr Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:29,236 Points:2,980,185 Joined:May 2001	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:48:28 AM Ignore nstrdnvstr Report Abuse SUV2009, "...We need to solve the issue now not later maybe our Government could do something instead of just talking about it." Maybe the utilities should be solving this and not the government.
albert2008 Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:2,279 Points:492,285 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:48:22 AM Ignore albert2008 Report Abuse it takes time to correct problems
JimL1 Champion Author Phoenix Posts:2,949 Points:376,320 Joined:Jul 2003	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:42:05 AM Ignore JimL1 Report Abuse The grid problems are temporary and so is the oversupply. I will steal a line from a movie of some time ago. "If you build it they will come." If, while the wind turbines are in abundant supply, the wind farms are built more cheaply than they can be build when the wind turbine supply is choked back down, the grid modernization will catch up. It will not be necessary to put people out of work. The attempts at artificial control of supply to control prices are the problem. It is very similar to what I call negative competition in sports. That is where instead of doing one's own athletic best to win, one concentrates on hindering the opposition.
raleightom All-Star Author Raleigh Posts:765 Points:215,710 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:35:47 AM Ignore raleightom Report Abuse Maybe we could get some cool deals on these. All we hear here is the high cost of alternative energy. Maybe we can bring it down a little with the help of globalization. Am I ordering one . . . . NOPE
DieselKat Champion Author Tennessee Posts:1,619 Points:1,376,935 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:30:09 AM Ignore DieselKat Report Abuse Well isn't this interesting.
dondee118 Champion Author Kansas City Posts:3,815 Points:708,540 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:28:12 AM Ignore dondee118 Report Abuse Therein lies the problem for wind, and solar for that matter. Infrastructure. You have to hook these thousands of acres of individual generators up together, with synchronizers, before you can sell the electricity. Go nuclear. One nuclear power plant on 20 acres can produce more electricity than thousands of acres of windmills. And be more consistent, and less intrusive on nature, and just as clean and renewable, and.... But what this article really points out is the huge fallacy of the Obama administration's idealistic "jobs plan." This administration wants to raise taxes on everyone, and then funnel "stimulus money" into the creation of "green jobs" following an idealism of "helping the environment", e.g. giving money to companies that will build windmills. But if no one buys the windmills because the market is overrun, as happened in China, then those jobs all go away. The way to stimulate the economy to create jobs is not to funnel money into idealistic programs, it is to reduce the taxes across the board and let private enterprise create it's own jobs.
SUV2009 All-Star Author Orlando Posts:955 Points:230,425 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:22:58 AM Ignore SUV2009 Report Abuse Just so you know we have the same issue here in the U.S. by the way of the grid. We need to solve the issue now not later maybe our Government could do something instead of just talking about it.
jdhelm Champion Author Iowa Posts:1,210 Points:184,665 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:21:40 AM Ignore jdhelm Report Abuse China will still have to update their grid (the same problem here in the states)to handle the 5-fold increase in turbines.
I10Express Champion Author San Antonio Posts:3,513 Points:624,695 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:20:28 AM Ignore I10Express Report Abuse How capitalistic to control the supply and keep prices up.
tomok Champion Author Portland Posts:17,900 Points:1,329,485 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:19:33 AM Ignore tomok Report Abuse Mac 1701 - did you read the full article?
Wwagon All-Star Author Michigan Posts:749 Points:177,430 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:18:44 AM Ignore Wwagon Report Abuse So much for a planned economy.
JediKnight Champion Author Wisconsin Posts:3,146 Points:1,494,525 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:17:01 AM Ignore JediKnight Report Abuse SaltyDogMA, Interesting point. Any business people out there want a few turbine plants for cheap?
MacGyver_1701 Champion Author Indiana Posts:6,834 Points:1,557,475 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:16:38 AM Ignore MacGyver_1701 Report Abuse “The overcapacity in manufacturing is caused by slower growth in wind-farm construction" Now this makes no sense. IF anything, it should spur construction on higher prices.
Gassed01 Champion Author Toronto Posts:1,621 Points:817,200 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:15:44 AM Ignore Gassed01 Report Abuse Lower costs for the turbines means the business case should make wind power more attractive.
lkozark Champion Author Missouri Posts:2,267 Points:529,580 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:14:01 AM Ignore lkozark Report Abuse Maybe they should sell more for less. Make the same amount of profit but more units.
stpetebp Champion Author Tampa Posts:2,741 Points:806,735 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:13:03 AM Ignore stpetebp Report Abuse Sounds like something we should be doing here in the US.
tomok Champion Author Portland Posts:17,900 Points:1,329,485 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:10:30 AM Ignore tomok Report Abuse “The overcapacity in manufacturing is caused by slower growth in wind-farm construction due to power-grid constraints. The issues with the grid aren’t expected to ease in the near term but should improve with the development of smart-grid investment over time.” Improve the electrical grid distribution system to get the power to where it needs to go. What a problem to have, so much potential green electricity they have to Idle 40% of Windpower Turbine Output Capacity. If we could have such a problem.
mysub Champion Author Las Vegas Posts:4,123 Points:1,327,665 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:09:59 AM Ignore mysub Report Abuse heysailor, that's exactly what their going to do.
TomT2Lee Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:3,470 Points:1,091,790 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:09:50 AM Ignore TomT2Lee Report Abuse Make capitol hill work for America. Set up wind turbines around the capitol to collect the hot air they give off.
SaltyDogMA Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:1,495 Points:439,425 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:09:32 AM Ignore SaltyDogMA Report Abuse Maybe we should buy some of these turbines.
throttle Champion Author Maryland Posts:7,672 Points:1,618,430 Joined:Jul 2004	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:08:15 AM Ignore throttle Report Abuse Clermont40Miles hit the nail on the head.
FocusGuy Champion Author Seattle Posts:1,914 Points:417,875 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:07:22 AM Ignore FocusGuy Report Abuse China is winning the wind battle too. We are worried about a few birds. geeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzz
I75at7AM Champion Author Dayton Posts:17,261 Points:1,421,600 Joined:Feb 2006	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:05:37 AM Ignore I75at7AM Report Abuse At least China is paying attention to market conditions, instead of bulling ahead with a centrally-planned economy. The USA needs to build wind power generation capacity, nearer to cities and the markets where the power is needed.
Cruiser340 Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:7,292 Points:1,778,410 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:05:06 AM Ignore Cruiser340 Report Abuse Reading the headline it looked like they were turning some off, but it's just production. Just so it doesn't increase the price of the turbines.
heysailor Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:4,470 Points:1,319,470 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:04:54 AM Ignore heysailor Report Abuse We can't let China steal this industry too.
TAT36 Champion Author Florida Posts:1,608 Points:306,860 Joined:Sep 2009	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:04:15 AM Ignore TAT36 Report Abuse To many plants is that like us having to many refineries?
SpruceGuse2 Champion Author Michigan Posts:4,703 Points:1,455,040 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:04:14 AM Ignore SpruceGuse2 Report Abuse They are setting themselves up to clean up their disgustingly dirty environment.
ironbox_sara Champion Author Albany Posts:4,525 Points:1,259,000 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:03:24 AM Ignore ironbox_sara Report Abuse Maybe the Kennedy's could see the wind turbine from their "compound".
Tnerbeel Champion Author Houston Posts:3,559 Points:739,210 Joined:Mar 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:03:23 AM Ignore Tnerbeel Report Abuse With everyone from Toyota to Ma & Pa Kettle beginning to build EV's, this is exactly what is going to happen to that market.
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:7,187 Points:807,720 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:03:18 AM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse sounds like the same logic from the oil industry... make less to keep profits higher. I wonder if speculators are in on this industry as well!
DustyHorse Champion Author Virginia Posts:1,353 Points:475,470 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:02:52 AM Ignore DustyHorse Report Abuse I agree with Clermont40Miles. We need to build the power grid to be able to use the power generated by wind turbines. Generating power is useless if we can't move it to where it is needed.
cv Champion Author Raleigh Posts:10,064 Points:2,251,630 Joined:Oct 2003	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:02:35 AM Ignore cv Report Abuse Sounds promising but can it work here enough to be worthwhile and cost efficient?
PENNYPINCHR Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:2,454 Points:1,656,390 Joined:Jul 2001	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:01:20 AM Ignore PENNYPINCHR Report Abuse Sounds like something we should be doing more of.
dan30thz28 Champion Author New Jersey Posts:1,077 Points:1,016,775 Joined:Feb 2006	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:00:55 AM Ignore dan30thz28 Report Abuse Cheap renewable resource. Imagine how these would do on the great plains in our country!
FuelOilOH All-Star Author Cleveland Posts:997 Points:544,785 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 8:00:08 AM Ignore FuelOilOH Report Abuse You have to have the infrastructure to handle the production
clermont40miles Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:4,538 Points:769,345 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 7:59:56 AM Ignore clermont40miles Report Abuse Building wind generation without a grid to match. Let us not follow that lead. Same for any type of generation. Unless used locally, an efficient and flexible grid is required. All the talk about generation of power and little to no discussion of the grid to go with it. Git 'er done. Or be like Chiner. /China
toyrunner300 Champion Author Calgary Posts:1,925 Points:971,290 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 7:59:11 AM Ignore toyrunner300 Report Abuse Good for us if we start one day to put some in place..... one day....
Tonester1 Champion Author New Jersey Posts:7,438 Points:1,329,545 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 7:58:56 AM Ignore Tonester1 Report Abuse We need to use more renewable energy. If I could I would have a wind turbine in my backyard if it means it will drastically reduce, or eliminate, having to pay for electricity.
Digger5 Veteran Author Milwaukee Posts:309 Points:942,895 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 7:58:46 AM Ignore Digger5 Report Abuse Sounds like it's time to slap a tariff on imported wind turbine parts!!!
Jarol Champion Author Iowa Posts:3,161 Points:577,435 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 7:58:26 AM Ignore Jarol Report Abuse Typical government meddling.
Joeski1 Champion Author New Jersey Posts:3,626 Points:726,725 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 7:56:16 AM Ignore Joeski1 Report Abuse they'll soon be dumping their excess turbine production here just like they dump all their consumer production.... they'll undercut our american production... put our people out of work... and rule the roost just like they do else where... and our limp politicos will sit there and do nothing.... because China underwrites our entire 14 trillion dollar debt.
RdHogg Champion Author Houston Posts:14,705 Points:1,896,705 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2010 7:55:41 AM Ignore RdHogg Report Abuse Dont worry Toyota is on it !!!